www.incontinentsupport.org

The adult diaper market is a malty billion dollar market and I doughty they cheapen there products to make more money.
The one thing that drives the cost and quality is Medicare and how much they will pay. If you go to almost any nursing home you will find the lower end diapers like depends.
The higher end diapers like molicare are European and there market is mainly Europe. They are twice expensive and considering Medicare says a diaper has to be changed I think every two to three hours so in most patents a molicare would be an over kill.

If one takes a depend diaper made several years ago and compare the absorbency with today’s depend I think todays will hold a lot more do to polymer.

Before I had to go to a Foley catheter for retention I was in the hospital and using there cheap thin diapers. I was changed every two to three hours wet or dry and I never had a leak.

Lyle

Lyle,
I have been in the hospital many times. I always bring my own Abena diapers. But in the past when I first became incontinent, I used the hospital brand of diapers because I didn't know any better. They were wings and depend. Both leaked profusely. I can't tell you how many times the nurses had to come in to change my clothes and my bedding because the diaper leaked all over the place. I disagree with you that the depends of today would outperform those of yesterday. I think the depends of 10 years ago were more absorbent than today. They leaked less on me I can tell you that. I was confident in them when I was younger. Not today. I would only buy them if there was nothing else. The nurses in the hospital nowadays when I go in are amazed at my abenas and how well they perform. They are so glad I bring my own diapers.

Unlike you, when I am in the hospital, I am considered mobile. Even if I am psychotic (I have bipolar disorder). I don't care who you are, if a person is in a psychotic crisis, they are generally not able to care for themselves. No matter who poorly I have been functioning in the past, I have never been changed by the nursing staff. I have asked for help 1 time, and been denied. Hence, I have had alot of wet beds due to leaky cheap diapers. When I am not functioning, I wish they would help me care for myself, but they do not since they consider me to be "mobile".

Don

I still stand by my statement that depends today are more absorbent than years ago.
What drive the manufacture to do what they do are sales.
Medicare and insurance companies are the driving force in what manufactures of medical supplies can charge. They also are the driving force if the quality of their products.
This also holds true with Foley catheters that I use today. As everyone knows internal catheters cause UTIs and I am no exception I have a UTI almost every month. The manufactures of catheters like Bard Medical and Rochester make a catheter with a silver coting it is supposed to help control UTIs. This is all good but insurance will not pay extra for them without pre approval and need cost difference about $5. Medicare for my supplies each month allows me two leg bags one set of straps two night bags one catheter four irrigation trays with four 1000cc saline water, this holds true with diapers one needs they pay X amount weather they work well or not.

As for the hospital the time I used for an example was when I had a heart cath done.
When this procedure is done they cut an artery in the groin area. The doctors that did the procedure only covered me with towels to stop urine for entering the surgery sight.
From there I don’t remember much in recovery but when I got back to my room I was diapered and wet and tried to change my self but I was told I could not move or role over for six hours or until I was told different, at that time a nurse helped me get dry and came back in every two to three hours to check on me and yes change me I at that time was also very mobile and I am considered mobile today even though I use a wheelchair for long distends. When I left the hospital I also brought my own disposables to go home in which were Molicare and like you the nurses were very surprised at them.
Tuesday I am having a small operation for hemorrhoids this will be a one night stay. This will be my first time in the hospital with a Foley catheter in me so I don’t know what to expect.

Back in the late 60s or 70s we saw our first disposables they were Attends. The hospital supply I dealt with gave me a case of them to try and the first thing I found they were very hot and sweaty in a short time. The second thing I found within an hour or so the padding fell apart and fell into the crotch even though they were not wet from urine just sweet the last thing when it fell apart absorbency well there was none. It was about ten years before they were improved but still lets a lot to be desired.

Back then hospital supply stores carried cloth diapers they were the most command way to control incontinence.

I still say disposable diapers today are more absorbent than the first ones on the market. The first disposable I can remember were Attends and they would not keep a
flee dry.

I been dealing with incontinence for well over 40yrs and married for 44yrs I have been around the block many, many times.

Lyle

My experienced with adult diapers only spans about 10-12 years, but Depends 10 years ago were not as absorbent, even accounting for my age difference (and less urine production obviously). I'm only 24 now but the last time I was in diapers at 14 they were worthless. They are still worthless now but I think I can objectively say they hold a little more and are slightly better at containing leaks. Thinner, but that is because they use more SAP I think than "fluff" and the old diapers had more fluff in them than SAP.

Needless to say now that I am buying my own diapers for the same problem (bedwetting) I didn't stay in Depends very long before switching to a brand that actually works. I am sure they are a great product for people who only have minor leakage or small accidents but I need something that can stand up to a flood.

Lyle,
I am definitely not saying that all diapers of today are less absorbent than yesterday, that would be crazy. I am just saying that the depends of today are not that great. They are not even remotely good. I disagree that the majority of the supply and demand comes from insurance companies and the like for depend. I think the majority of depend users are new to incontinence, and leak very little, and do not have a clue as to what else is out there for them. So they buy what they see in the stores. Its a common product and a household name. When the majority of americans think about people with incon issues, the name depend comes to mind. But they are garbage. I think most insurance comapanies and hospitals do not supply depends anyway. They use wings brand adult diapers. Which are even cheaper than depends and perform worse. I know, I have worn them as I mentioned earlier. I know the VA uses wings brand because I used to get them for my incontinence issues. They now supply me Abena by the way, for free! I raised hell with the patient advocate until I got them to purchase the Abenas. I get two cases of extra, and 2 cases of xplus at no cost to me. But to those VA patients that do not know they can do this, they supply wings brand diapers to most people. I have heard of some VA patients getting depends, but I don't think its common and it depends on which VA you go to. Nevertheless, I think wings are the most common with insurance companies. My healthcare insurance doesn't even pay for diapers. And I have really good insurance through Tricare Prime. Military insurance. They just don't pay for diapers but they will pay for catheters.

Don

I am not disagreeing with you about depends absorbance like I said they would not keep a flee dry or would they?
Going to the urologist every four to six weeks I have met several incontinent males and we do meet outside of the doctor at McDonald's for breakfast once in a while. It may surprise you most of them use condom caths two use depends they say that is all they need for their site leakage. In general talking with these men that use depends they say they hold up well for them.

I agree with almost everything you said. People that first became incontinent don’t know much and do go to their local store and buy whatever they have.
Somewhere along the lines one of my doctors though I need physical therapy on how to handle my incontinence so I went by this time my incontinence was getting quite bad.
From groups like this I found better diapers and people that knew where to get them. I went to therapy and it was a joke they knew nothing and I became the hit when I showed them a Molicare. The therapies never say a disposable that heave and impressed at how it kept you dry. Over the years I learned a lot I used almost every type of incontinent product.
When my bladder turned flaccid it then became life threating my kidneys were becoming involved thus the indwelling catheter. Even though my urologist prescribed a Foley for me he never told me how to handle or what to do. His nurse told me a little but not enough and even going for a second opinion I still got little info.

But I still say insurances and Medicare drive the prices. Why wouldn’t depends or the lower diaper company’s not improve their products to compete with Molicare and higher end company’s why do hospital and nursing homes use depends and the cheaper products making more work for the nurses and why dose Attends make a better more absorbent diaper for Europe not sold in the US and last why dose insurance and Medicare pay for the cheaper brand when it has to be changed three to five times for one Molicare?
Think of this why don’t Depends make a diaper to compete with Molicare and others they as you put it have the name people associate with adult diapers.
I think if there was enough profit in it they would make a better product we do have the knowhow.

Medicare and some Insurance will pay for diapers if you are house bound and have a caregiver or when in a hospital I know several that get there supply’s paid for every month. You are also right insurance and Medicare dose pay for catheters and all my supplys.

Lyle

Lyle,
Going off what you said earlier, I absolutely think that depends and other companies would cheapen their product, in other words, less quality, in order to make a buck. The come out with "changes" all the time. And they are not always for the better.

I have been using abena for 3 years now and they have been the same. There have been no "new and improved" abenas in quite a while. They don't have to make changes to their briefs because their product actually works. Brands like abena and molicare actually put pride and dignity into their product because they understand people have to use them to prevent leaks. The diaper must contain that which will not be contrained by the body. Depend has never learned this. They seek to provide a product that looks like underwear. And their products perform like underwear. I have used them before in a pinch and they leaked after one wetting. They will not contain a flood. I definitely would not have a bowel movement in them. Lord knows how that would end up. I know I can wear an abena Xplus for around 6-8 hours. I can flood the diaper around 4 times and it will hold a bowel movement. Needless to say, I hate cheap diapers and the embarassment they cause. Incontinent people deserve their dignity and depends does a poor job at providing this.

Don, you're right about why these mass marketing companies keep making changes to their products. And that's what I was saying about the CVS adjustable underwear. I think, although I could be wrong, the reason they do this is to keep customers coming back to buy their stuff. The companies probably believe that if their customers keep using their same ol' products they're going to get tired of them and look for something new. Well guess what! If the new and improved versions are anything but, then guess where their customers are going to go? Right! To a competing brand that promises something better. And the big companies are going to scratch their heads and say, "hhmmmm! What went wrong here?" Now the mass-market brands are good for those who don't need a lot of protection (for now I probably fall into that category but I want something of quality) and want to pick up something in a hurry and not spend a lot of money. But as you say if you have a bigger issue, they really won't hold water (pun intended!) And your high end products will (and hopefully) be less inclined to keep "improving" their products just to keep their customers in the fold. Anyway, that's my two cents worth!

Don and cedarloaf

Don I agree with most of your comments.

I never said depends and others did not make changes to their products all I said is depends today are better than depends of yester year. Depends go after a different market then Molicare and the higher end diapers.

I have CIDP a chronic type of neuropathy and I use to belong to a board much like this. From being on that board I met many different people from all over the world and one man and one woman my age had the same disease I have they both passed on. We emailed for several years both were also incontinent he lived in Sweden and the woman lived in England. From our emailing they told me all their supplies for incontinence were paid for by the government.
This is how I saw the European Attends he sent me a couple and they were so much better than the ones sold here about three times thicker. And hold so much more.

What I am saying the European diaper company’s don’t have to chance there products they are good so why should they the government pays for them now how many people get there supplies paid for in the US unless you were in the military.

So we are not comparing apples to apples, how can you compare American adult diaper manufactures ho has to sell their products on the open market to not make changes some for the better some for the worst making changes cost money.
European adult diaper manufactures are supported by the government and paid for so why would they changes.

I don’t know how many people on here worked in industry but I did I was a maintenance machinist millwright. Every time the engineers made a change to the product it cost many thousands of dollars to get it implemented.
Looking on the internet at diaper making machinery they are expensive and in time from use will need a new set of dies to cut the plastic or the fluff I drought they are cheap. If they were going to change it would be when new dies were needed.

If one looks at the baby diaper market there are the premium diaper and the cheaper diaper. So if we were talking about babies the conversation I think would be very similar.

Just be thankful there are European adult diapers think if they were as bad as the American diapers.

Lyle